What Causes a Generator on an Allis Chalmers Tractor to Overcharge

Wicksfield

Posted 9/21/2014 19:57 (#4086398) Subject: 12v Generator and Regulator

NCIN

I accept the above gear up-up on my 830 case. The onetime regulator was giving me issues plus the light would not get out until it was rev'd upward. Put a new regulator on and it worked not bad. Light went out as soon as it started and not dim at an idle. At present, it's back to its old tricks of dim at idle and you have to rev it up to get the light to go out. What the heck is going on? The back of the generator may have gotten wet when washing the tractor. Not a overflowing but a mist,

Thanks for your response.

JasonK

Posted nine/21/2014 21:29 (#4086711 - in reply to #4086398) Field of study: RE: 12v Generator and Regulator

East Primal Iowa

Dealt with the aforementioned problems on my 930'south. Always the regulator that's the problem. Seems that these new regulators aren't very well built anymore. I go on at to the lowest degree 2 on hand, sometimes that'due south not enough if you utilise the tractor a lot. I keep changing them until I become a adept one that works. A "practiced" i will merely last a few years till there back at it once more. I've fifty-fifty taken the whole generator off for testing and had a more seasoned mechanic/rebuilder than myself wait at them. Maybe pull the generator off and take someone/rebuilder look at it and test it to ease your mind. I'm pretty sure information technology's just crappy regulators.

Also, the generator lamp is part of the charge circuit. Make sure it's cleaned up good and original wattage bulb. I can't retrieve the bulb wattage at present, just if you need information technology I'll find information technology. Incorrect bulb gives charging fits too.

Trent2520

Posted 9/21/2014 21:43 (#4086756 - in reply to #4086398) Subject area: RE: 12v Generator and Regulator

Statesville, NC

The problem is generators haven't been on new tractors for around 45 years now. For a while after everything went to alternators, there were nonetheless some skillful oem regulators in production. At present, all the new junk regulators are imported. If you really desire reliable you lot will have to convert to an alternator. Jon Hagen

Posted 9/21/2014 22:03 (#4086829 - in respond to #4086756) Subject: RE: 12v Generator and Regulator

Hagen Brothers farms,Goodrich ND

Trent2520 - ix/22/2014 20:43

The problem is generators haven't been on new tractors for effectually 45 years now. For a while subsequently everything went to alternators, in that location were nevertheless some good oem regulators in production. Now, all the new junk regulators are imported. If you really want reliable you will have to convert to an alternator.

+ 1, skilful reliable regulators are a thing of the by, all you get now for that very limited market is junk made in trivial shops in China and India.

The cutout section of a mechanical regulator is usually OK, the problem is the junky field voltage control relay..
For years I have toyed with the idea of fitting off the shelf, stock solid state field regulator for alternators to generators. They come in both A(Chrysler) and B( Ford and GM) excursion field systems similar generators. 'The field electric current of the alternator VS generator fields is similar (usually 3-iv amps), and then I see no reason those accurate and reliable units could not exist adapted to 12V generators.

JasonK

Posted 9/21/2014 22:xx (#4086879 - in reply to #4086829) Subject: RE: 12v Generator and Regulator

Eastward Central Iowa

I wish someone would make i solid land. So, if you e'er do...let me know, I'd similar to endeavor ane. These case tractors aren't the easiest to convert to an alternator because of the limited space up forepart (I know, sounds crazy, but true). Most conversions I've seen are rough and the lower radiator hose rubbed through from the belt. Forces me to just continue with a generator setup. Gerald J.

Posted 9/21/2014 22:45 (#4086936 - in reply to #4086829) Subject: RE: 12v Generator and Regulator

I believe practically all alternator fields are grounded by one castor and slip ring and so the regulator controls the 12 volt supply to the field that is the rotor. In many a generator one terminate of the field coil is continued to the A terminal hence 12 volts and the regulator is on the ground side. Generators have been built both ways.

I built my first solid state voltage regulator nigh 1968 when I installed a '68 bug engine in my '64 and swapping generators was non possible. The '68 was 12 volts and the'64 was vi volts and then I built a voltage regulator that worked really well. I used a large diode for the cutout. That regulator used a zener diode and iii or four transistors.

The next voltage regulator was for an alternator and I used an IC plus a transistor or two for it. The IC I used is still used in Astron AC power supplies though its poorly suited compared to modern ICs.

I adjusted a PTO driven farm alternator to an isolated power supply for computerized computer terminals for a big paper and built a regulator for that to amend the voltage control. I don't remember its circuit.

I congenital a DC voltage regulator for the Chinese locomotive on the Boone and Scenic Valley Railroad using a few resistors, a ability MOSFET, and a TL431C that works similar an op amp comparator with built in reference though its sold as a programmable zener diode. I've used a like scheme for regulation 12 volt ability supplies running of Air-conditioning ability.

It might be profitable to buy a generator voltage regulator from a specialist in tractor restoration. One I know of is Steve (NJ) who participates in the unofficial Allis Chalmers forum.
B&B Custom Circuits
xi Woodfield Road
Andover, New Jersey 07821
http://www.bb-customcircuits.com/

Gerald J.

JasonK

Posted nine/21/2014 22:57 (#4086947 - in answer to #4086936) Subject: RE: 12v Generator and Regulator

Due east Central Iowa

Thank you for posting the link to B&B! I see several things he has that I'd like to try. Including a Hard disk start switch for my Ac WD45. Jon Hagen

Posted 9/21/2014 23:14 (#4086962 - in respond to #4086936) Subject: RE: 12v Generator and Regulator

Hagen Brothers farms,Goodrich ND

"
I believe practically all alternator fields are grounded past one brush and slip ring and and so the regulator controls the 12 volt supply to the field that is the rotor. In many a generator one end of the field coil is connected to the A concluding hence 12 volts and the regulator is on the basis side. Generators accept been congenital both ways."

Gerald is right for the older chrysler, Ford and GM external regulator alternators, they have a "B" circuit field, in that the field is grounded inside the alternator example and fed power through the regulator.

The 1 exception to that is the 68-80+ Chrysler alternators that used a solid state regulator. They have i end of the field continued to bombardment voltage and the other end connected to basis by the solid state regulator, an externally grounded "A" system. This "A" circuit regulator should work on the typical Delco "A" circuit externally grounded field generator that was used on and then many machines. Those regulators and whatever needed replacement are available at nigh any car parts store for inexpensive. The "cut out" function could exist done by the old generator regulator or a solid state diode.

Edited by Jon Hagen 9/21/2014 23:xvi

Jon Hagen

Posted nine/21/2014 23:44 (#4086989 - in respond to #4086879) Subject: RE: 12v Generator and Regulator

Hagen Brothers farms,Goodrich ND

JasonK - 9/22/2014 21:20

I wish someone would make one solid state. So, if y'all ever do...let me know, I'd like to effort i. These case tractors aren't the easiest to catechumen to an alternator because of the limited space upwardly front (I know, sounds crazy, but truthful). About conversions I've seen are rough and the lower radiator hose rubbed through from the belt. Forces me to just continue with a generator setup.

One thought on an alternator conversion. On some other site they tell of using a much smaller Hitachi #14231 with internal solid land regulator on IH Thousand or H tractors where in that location is petty room for the typical larger diameter Delco SI series alternator. The Hitachi #14231 is a much better fit, as information technology is very close to the aforementioned diameter as the original generator. Might one of those be a better fit in your application ??

Edited by Jon Hagen 9/21/2014 23:54

Gerald J.

Posted 9/22/2014 10:34 (#4087495 - in reply to #4086962) Field of study: RE: 12v Generator and Regulator

Oasis't been into those resent vintage Chrysler alternators. Most of my alternator details came from a Delco publication.

With the regulator on my '64 bug where I had a lab quality voltmeter and ammeter mounted on the dash I found that the original cutout let the generator draw about x amps reverse electric current at engine slightly fast idle before it cut out. That reduced city traffic charging efficiency by that added discharge. When I went to a diode cutout that idle discharge current was not in that location. Between the better voltage command and the diode, battery life was significantly improved. Problem is, there is forwards voltage driblet in the diode that is temperature and current sensitive so its meliorate for the regulator to sample the voltage on the battery postal service of the regulator than on the armature terminal of the generator.

In those days SAE specs on charging voltage were loose and beyond what was really practiced for batteries. Holding the charging voltage at 14.2 volts for a 6 cell starting battery with specific gravity 1260 at 68 degrees F gets the best bombardment life, giving full accuse without any overcharge. It does vary with battery temperature and with the delivered electrolyte density. Charging voltage should be a little higher for both lower and higher bombardment temperature.

Charging voltage is too high if the charging current never gets to zero, and under those conditions the electrolyte will need water on occasion, more than often the greater the overcharge. Charging voltage is also low if its not right up to the voltage that keeps the charging current higher up zero. Its easiest to set if adjustable to the voltage that doesn't permit the charging electric current decay to zero, then lower the voltage slowly until it does drop the charging electric current to zip. That gives the most consummate charge for maximum stored free energy without losing electrolyte from overcharge.

At that place is a more modern CS130 IIRC Delco that fits in identify of a generator better than the SI serial, and there are vendors, maybe including B&B Circuits that will gut a generator case and slip in an alternator.

Actually what we call a generator is fundamentally an alternator considering the currents in individual armature windings alternates just similar an Ac output automobile, but the commutator connects to the windings physically where the current is in the desired direction and and then acts as a mechanical rectifier. A generator with the armature windings connected to a pair of slip rings instead of the commutator would simply produce Ac. There is 1 physical departure, in the alternators we know, the field rotates and the output winding is fixed. In generators of common use, the field is fixed and the output winding rotates. All it takes to move electrons in the output winding is a moving magnetic field, doesn't affair whether the output wires move or the magnetic field moves. Either or both tin move.

Gerald J.

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Source: https://talk.newagtalk.com/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=502576&DisplayType=flat&setCookie=1

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